Inilahtindaklanjut kesepakatan damai antara ormas Laskar Bali vs Baladika Bali, pasca bentrok di LP Kerobokan (Kecamatan Kuta Utara, Badung) dan di Jalan Teuku Umar Denpasar Barat, Kamis (17/12) lalu, yang merenggut 4 nyawa dan 5 korban luka berat.
Debate Forums Vs. Debates You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites should upgrade or use an alternative browser. Heracles vs Karna Nasuverse Thread starter RegisNex1232 Start date Nov 19, 2015 1 The strongest heroes of their times clash. Heracles vs Karna The fight occurs at Einzbern Castle Outer Courtyard Herc as Berserker without Illya holding him back. Sufficient prana for both sides No master interference Both start at opposite ends of the courtyard. No info on each other. EDIT Based on GaRbS's suggestion, I've moved this fight to Greece. Same conditions as above and at the Parthenon. Round 1 Berserker Herc Round 2 Saber Herc Round 3 Archer Herc Bonus Round Both Archers You can use stat sheets from the Create an Actual Servant thread on this forum for both characters if they have any Bonus Scenario, Myth Heracles vs Myth Karna, who wins? Who wins? Last edited Nov 19, 2015 Dagoron That guy with the face and the eyes 2 Isn't Karna with sufficient mana completely capable of matching Gilgamesh wish ease? I thought Karna's primary issue was that no one had enough mana to supply him so that his abilities could be fully utilized. Karna should take this pretty easily if both sides have sufficient mana. In a normal fight, Hercules simply outlasts Karna. 3 Question is whether or not VS plus BK can blow through Herc's lives. I'm leaning towards "yes". 4 The only question here is wether Karna will be forced to use vasavi shakti or not, and i wouldnt be suprised if the answer was no, although it may be necessary, if only due to gos hands immunity bullshit. VS will just blow herc away, that thing can kill full gods. 5 So is this a complete stomp? Do I deserve a Vlad Tepes award or something? Also, Bonus Scenario, anyone? 6 A+ Caliburn could Kill Herc Multiple time EX class VS would be overkill. Also, Bonus Scenario, anyone? Still Karna, IIRC Herc carried the weight of entire Sky, while Karna pushed the weight of Universe 7 Karna's Vasavi Shakti, if brought out would absolutely shatter Herakles, Godhand or not. Assuming Karna has access to an adequate mana source, he could even fight Heracles one on one to a standstill with his bare hands. As for Myth Karna, his arrows were capable of blowing back a chariot holding the weight of the universe on it. There's a reason why Krishna, the Hindu creator god, was afraid Karna would kill Arjuna even with nearly the entire Hindu pantheon behind Arjuna and his brothers. tldr, Karna murks Herakles in both scenarios Last edited Nov 19, 2015 8 While fighting him in the forest during a Fate route bad end Saber fails to take even two lives off of Hercules using Excalibur. I don't know if Godhand can be fully used up by VS. They also have no info on each other so Karna will not jump to VS and in the time he's nit using it he gets maybe ine to three kills in before Herk becomes invunerable and starts playing baseball using Karna. If VS can take off nine lives Herc has problems but this isn't as clear cut as Karna stomps. Qinglong Martyrs are just the first to Die 9 Illya claims if she had been full on mana she would have taken more than that Shirou's saber is really bad 10 While fighting him in the forest during a Fate route bad end Saber fails to take even two lives off of Hercules using Excalibur. I don't know if Godhand can be fully used up by VS. They also have no info on each other so Karna will not jump to VS and in the time he's nit using it he gets maybe ine to three kills in before Herk becomes invunerable and starts playing baseball using Karna. If VS can take off nine lives Herc has problems but this isn't as clear cut as Karna stomps. It is. Vasavi Shakti destroys everything divine. Godhand is a divine power. If Heracles gets hit by VS then he doesn't get any more ressurections no matter how many lives he had left. GaRbS Those who are truly strong, need no techniques! 11 The only Servant capable of matching a serious Gilgamesh is Enkidu, not even a full prana supported Karna can do that, he is just worthy of Gilgamesh getting serious, which is much more than what most Servants can do. Also, if you're going to put Heracles against Karna at least use him as an Archer in Greece if you want a fair fight. Illya only held Berserker once in a non-canon adaption and she always supplied him with more prana than all of the other Masters ever combined except Sakura and Medea. 12 Hello, I Know that this article is old but I want to talk about this fight. First, Heracles, with or without Mana, hasn't any chance to defeat Karna. Karna's ability is superior than Heracles. Karna's Nobe Phanthasms are superior than Heracles' Noble phanthasms. Karna could kill heracles 13 times without a great mana source. If we think in stats of each servants and NP, we will see a great disadvantage for Heracles. Heracles is great physical monster. Heracles Strenght A+, END A, Agility A. However, Karna also has incredible stats to fight against a Berserker. Karna Strenght B, END C A++, Agility A. Karna is on par with heracles but, in skill, Karna is better. Heracles has the battle continuation with a high rank and he can nullify all attacks lower than A rank but Karna's normal attack has an A rank power. So Karna could cause him high damage. Siegfried, who is a great swordman, was damaged almost 80 times, all of them in vital points, and he needed to take some recovery of Gordes. While Karna did not need any recovery. As I see, Karna wins heracles easily without use the Vasavi Shakti. Well, in the Gilgamesh's case, this is different. It is said that Karna is on par with Gilgamesh. Karna can obligate gilgamesh to use the Enuma Elish. However, as all the people say, Gilgamesh could kill Karna only with the GoB and Enkidu's chains. Personally, I think that Karna could break the chains with the Brahmastra or he could use his prana burst to burn the chains, each cases are possibe, but I don't think that Gilgamesh could take him off only with GoB and Enkidu. Okay, now, I want to talk about an important thing. Gilgamesh has the Enuma Elish, the sword of the rupture that It can provocate the world's destruction. The enuma elish is a sword which only the kings can wield it. However, The Vasavi Shakti is the greatest and the strongest weapon of the Indra's Army. Indra is the King of the Gods in the indian mithology. This weapon is a Spear of the mortality that can kill even Gods. It is a weapon which only the Gods can wield it. As I see it, Karna has a lot of chances to defeat Gilgamesh or, almost, Karna can damage gilgamesh a lot. I´d kill to see a fight between these great heroes. 13 ^i think making a new thread instead of a necro would have been better, but okay and you got something about godhand wrong even if all your attacks are A rank herc would gain resistance after each attack and a huge resistance boost after each death so he won't be able to kill him 12 times just with his normal attacks so it depends on how many lives Brahmastra, Brahmastra Kundala and prana burst flame enchanted attacks would take which is a matter of speculation because herc did never encounter a A+ anti country noble phantasm or prana burst flame so we can't say how many lives it would take Vasavi Shakti however should oneshot him also karna isn't stated to be gilgamesh's equal that's enkidu who is stated to be stronger than karna and Heracles in the after words of fate strange fake volume 1, but to be someone Gilgamesh has to be serious for which basically means using Enuma elish and enkidu chain is also painfully to debate because we are never given a explanation why berserker could break free from it "it's impossible, but herc" for round 3 against Alcides the closest thing we have to archer herc only counting noble phantasm we actually know right so.. 2 from his 12 labor noble phantasms and not his EX rank np karna wins by simply nuking him because the Pelt of the Nemean Lion only protect's Alcides from Manmade weapons and while Alcides has higher range than karna... his arrows got backhanded by gilgamesh who has lower agility than karna who in one scene also cuts a arrow from atlanta midair and gil's armor also only got some scratches from it in melee i think it's ironically closer Goddess of War should give Alcides a rather huge stat advantage after all it's a stat boost np ranked Anti-Fortress and he already has a strength advantage, but karna's stats do not include his armor and Alcides has neither a melee weaponshown yet... he seems to use it bow for that too nor a answer for karna using prana burst flame like this so karna should win this one too, but Alcides won't go down easily because of A+ Battle Continuation 14 VS is less about really being anti divine and being more it kills absolutely anything to be honest. Otherwise there's the fact that you have Karna in a class with his greatest weapon, even if Archer might be as good or better for him who knows. Versus a pretty fucking gimped class for Herk. A better fight is Archer Herk vs Karna, or Saber or whatever. Aclides is not really stronger than Archer Herk and is probably weaker despite being a better match up against Gilgamesh. You could debate a fight between those two. 15 At least give herk back his intelligence. GaRbS Those who are truly strong, need no techniques! 16 Karna333, you're hyping Karna way too much. He may be able of beating Herc but it'd not be easy in any way, are you forgetting this Herc we're talking about? And no, a Servant who's stated to consume a LOT of prana CAN'T defeat Herc without a great prana source, that's actually one of his weaknesses as a Servant. And Karna isn't THAT more skilled that Herc, if at all. This is the same guy who mastered all weapons to the extent he can be in all classes, minus Caster. Plus, Nine Lives, which he made as all-purpose techniques to adapt to his fighting style, which has power comparable to a Noble Phantasm. also karna isn't stated to be gilgamesh's equal He actually is. His father is the Hindu Sun God, Surya, so his power level is Rank A+. His is shoulder to shoulder with the exceptional Gilgamesh. He is an incomparably strong servant. Since Jinako is a third rate Master, his full potential is not drawn out. This is largely because by the time he makes his appearance in CCC he has already lost his greatest weapon. that's enkidu who is stated to be stronger than karna and Heracles in the after words of fate strange fake volume 1 Only in stats, and don't forget that a battle between Servants is a battle between Noble Phantasms. karna wins by simply nuking him because the Pelt of the Nemean Lion only protect's Alcides from Manmade weapons Where is that ever stated? Last edited Aug 15, 2016 17 In my opinion, it ends this way Round 1 most likely Karna, due Herakles' insanity weakening him much more than Mad Enhancement strengthens him. Round 2 and 3 and bonus most likely Herakles. Because this is Herakles, whose feats include mastering any and all forms of combat he's qualified for all classes except Caster in fact the archery version of Nine Lives hits a hundred times by shooting a single arrow through sheer skill, and the sword version is effectively three Tsubame Gaeshi at the same time backed up by enough strength to lift the sky, resurrecting a woman by defeating Death in a wrestling match, surprising cunning that we tend to forget because he's strong enough to lift the sky, and generally surpassing the gods aside for beating Death in a wrestling match, he broke the chain that was holding Prometheus bound. A chain that Zeus, who is stronger than all the other gods together, could not break. Then in the Nasuverse Gilgamesh bound him with his chain, with Herakles' own Divinity rank making it unbreakable to him, and yet Herakles broke it. That's what screws Karna Herakles' much smarter and skilled than expected, and capable of doing the impossible. Bonus scenario they stop the battle half-way and fraternize over their shitty families. Later they save each others' lives, Herakles helping Karna in the Kurukshetra War and Karna giving Herakles' marital advice, with Zeus being proud of his son and Indra and Krishna shitting themselves because now the two invincible heroes will come for them. 18 While fighting him in the forest during a Fate route bad end Saber fails to take even two lives off of Hercules using Excalibur. I don't know if Godhand can be fully used up by VS. They also have no info on each other so Karna will not jump to VS and in the time he's nit using it he gets maybe ine to three kills in before Herk becomes invunerable and starts playing baseball using Karna. If VS can take off nine lives Herc has problems but this isn't as clear cut as Karna stomps. Said Excalibur had no power behind it, unless you are saying that Caliburn is a surperior weapon to Excalibur it isn't. - Because this is Herakles, whose feats include mastering any and all forms of combat he's qualified for all classes except Caster in fact the archery version of Nine Lives hits a hundred times by shooting a single arrow through sheer skill, and the sword version is effectively three Tsubame Gaeshi at the same time backed up by enough strength to lift the sky, resurrecting a woman by defeating Death in a wrestling match, surprising cunning that we tend to forget because he's strong enough to lift the sky, and generally surpassing the gods aside for beating Death in a wrestling match, he broke the chain that was holding Prometheus bound. A chain that Zeus, who is stronger than all the other gods together, could not break. Then in the Nasuverse Gilgamesh bound him with his chain, with Herakles' own Divinity rank making it unbreakable to him, and yet Herakles broke it. That's what screws Karna Herakles' much smarter and skilled than expected, and capable of doing the impossible. B Mythical Karna has that type of feat level, from pushing a chariot weighed equal to the universe and protected by gods with bow shots to being downright invincible with his armor. Neither hero is as strong as they are in myth. Last edited Aug 15, 2016 19 Where is that ever stated? that's from a summery The Nemean Lion, according to Gilgamesh, is possibly a special demonic beast that rejects human civilization, granting it and its pelt immunity to human-made weapons rejecting human's seems to be a theme in fate strange fake apparently the cloth over true archer's face is the pelt Fate/strange fake Free-Range Spoilers - Page 205 volume 3 p73 He unfurled some cloth and put it on – from his shoulder to over his head, covering his face. "For the sake of exacting my revenge... I will use you. And if you no longer have any value, your head.... I'll twist it off. No sooner than taking up such a strange appearance, it seemed as though insanity would take over the Heroic Spirit; however, unlikely intelligible words, dangerous words came from this mouth. Even to that, Buzzcola expressionlessly asked, "Why do you hide your face?" "...Punishment. Never again will I lay eyes on the 'works of man.'" "...Ahhh, I see. That cloth, it's the skin of 'that.' Then, if it doesn't hinder you, I have no issue with that." Qinglong Martyrs are just the first to Die 20 Caliburn and Excalibur are two different holy swords. In a sense, Caliburn was prepared for the sake of rearing King Arthur as a king, a member of royalty. Originally, Caliburn was meant for ceremonial use. If it is employed in battle as a weapon and its True Name is released, firepower on the same scale as Excalibur will be displayed, but its blade will probably be unable to withstand Artoria's magical energy and break. And that is all you will ever get on Heracles dying to Caliburn GaRbS Those who are truly strong, need no techniques! 21 You've gotta give it to Alcides for bragging like a mofo about Gilgamesh needing Ea to make them equal when he could have just used other Divine Constructs. But this means that Gilgamesh normally doesn't use them even while spaming thousands of NPs, which makes a lot of sense regarding how Shirou beat him even though he can't project those. But what's more strange nyehehehe is that this also fits with how Ko-Gil and Angelica don't normally use Divine Constructs and that when they do, it's only a few. 22 You've gotta give it to Alcides for bragging like a mofo about Gilgamesh needing Ea to make them equal when he could have just used other Divine Constructs even more because he was about to use Goddess of War which is just A rank Anti Fortress noble phantasm and Gilgamesh should have several hundreds higher ranked noble phantasm in his treasury after all he used at least 501 against enkidu and i kinda doubt that he used anything but the highest ranked noble phantasms in this fight but maybe Alcides is just insane... having his entire fleah being eaten by grail mud and being forcefully remodeled into another existence can't be healthy for the mind GaRbS Those who are truly strong, need no techniques! 23 BTW, Frankenmoe, the only sources I've found for that summary were the wiki. Do you happen to have the BL source at hand or at least know in what thread it is and at what time it was posted? 24 BTW, Frankenmoe, the only sources I've found for that summary were the wiki. Do you happen to have the BL source at hand or at least know in what thread it is and at what time it was posted? it isn't from BL it was from 4chan i can't find the original wording for it myself, but the only real different was that it said man made weapons and not human made weapons 25 Mythical Karna has that type of feat level, from pushing a chariot weighed equal to the universe and protected by gods with bow shots to being downright invincible with his armor. Neither hero is as strong as they are in myth. Does he have the feat of "doing the impossible through sheer awesome" in the Nasuverse too? Because in the meantime I've checked the mythical Karna and noticed he's one of few heroes with that kind of ability in fact I know only two of them Karna and Herakles. That's why I imagine them getting along in the bonus scenario, but Herakles' the one who did it in the Nasuverse too, such as needing to be killed over 12 times because Berserker!Herakles wanted to comfort Illya while she died and only died after that, being bound by a chain that was impossible to break for someone at his level of Divinity and yet he broke it, swordsmanship that strikes nine times from nine different directions at the same time, and hitting a hundred targets by shooting a single arrow. When he has the sanity to use his skills I just can't imagine him losing any kind of fight that doesn't start with him caught by surprise and killed twelve times before he can react. Similar threads Debate Forums Vs. Debates
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laskar bali vs hercules
